Young Lawyer Welfare Survey 2017
Last updated: 1 March 2018
Overview In August 2017, The CanLaw Report ran a survey on employee welfare in the in Malaysian legal industry, which was kick-started by our piece on 20 Way Too Real Pupillage Problems Best Explained with Memes. The campaign went on being promoted by 2 other articles that month, mainly 6 Reasons Why Malaysian Young Lawyers Are Broke AF and These Young Lawyers Tried Applying For Leave. Their Bosses Responses Shocked Us. The response we received from this survey was overwhelming, to say the least, with over 240 young lawyers sharing their views and stories on their experience as an employee within the Malaysian legal industry. The results of the said survey are published in this document. We maintain to keep the names and identities of the respondents completely anonymous.
Demographics
Demographics
Financials
Highly unfair
Highly fair
Financials
Financials
Financials
Never
Everyday
Financials
Financials
Financials 7. How much should the minimum wage for pupils be?
Top 5 responses: 2500 3000 2000 1500 1000
Mentoring
Highly insufficient
Highly sufficient
Mentoring
Highly uninvolved
Highly involved
Mentoring
Minimal Autonomy
Maximum Autonomy
Mentoring
Highly unreceptive
Highly receptive
Mentoring
Never
All the time
Mentoring
Work Environment 1.
How do you feel about your firm’s work culture? (Select all which apply)
Hierarchical (44%) Supportive (37.8%) Collaborative (23.7%) Teamwork-driven (22%) Open To Ideas (21.6%) Progressive (19.9%) Transparent (10.8%) Competitive (9.5%) Innovative (8.7%)
Work Environment
Work Environment
Work Environment
Highly inadequate
Highly adequate
Work Environment
Extremely Bad
Extremely Good
Work Environment
Highly unappreciated
Highly appreciated
Learning & Personal Development
Learning & Personal Development
Learning & Personal Development
Learning & Personal Development
Highly unsupportive
Highly supportive
Learning & Personal Development
Document Drafting
Submissions
Client Interaction
Advocacy
Office Admin
Document Management
Processes & Procedure
Welfare & Safety
Very low priority
Very high priority
Welfare & Safety
Welfare & Safety
Welfare & Safety
Welfare & Safety
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!)
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It's all hearsay. But we do have a partner who constantly goes for the ladies, refuses to work with men too. If he doesn't feel he can get them, he reacts vengefully and spitefully. I can't say whether that was the case with me (as in whether he fancied me or not) but one day he did become incredibly spiteful. Luckily I was transferred out immediately when management started getting complaints about me from him. They must have felt it was unwarranted. But he did that to two other ladies under him after that, and certainly tried his best to fire one. The word is that she rejected his advances. She was protected and transferred out too, but I wouldn't want to be her. She still works on the same floor as him. Hearsay however. But his repeated behaviour is known. I don't know why the firm doesn't get rid of him. The other one concerns another partner who has been verbally and physically abusive to chambies and young lawyers (gender is not an issue here). The last incident was a few weeks ago when a lawyer under him walked out. He said he was hit. I'd walk too if that was the case.
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Colleague confided that a senior member of the firm sends her lewd pictures and consistently asks her out though he is married. Many suggestive remarks are made at her which causes her to be uncomfortable.
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
Being scold for no reasons and you have to do others file which is not yours. Being compared with others. Indeed, I don't have much experience, but I'm being unfairly treated. Plus, currently I'm taking my CLP exam and I don't have any chance to take a break. Need to go to office after exam. It sucks. Don’t have enough rest. And plus NO TEAMWORK IN MY OFFICE. You have to do all things. And it is actually affecting my health and doctor said due to stress and too much workload.
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One clerk/secretary always try to pass her work to the pupils, and would get angry if we won't help her. She used to scream at the pupils unless we follow her instructions.
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My friends (pregnant) has been pushed to go to different court in a day even she has informed she is not feeling well.it continuously for everyday
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Verbal abuse by partners and legal assistants towards pupils and secretaries, being sidelined because the person wears a tudung, not being compensated for working overtime and working on weekends
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
Being called stupid on daily basis
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Bias and racist
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Boss bring kids, kids very noisy
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Calling out inappropriate names for opposite sex, bully mentally, being isolated by others.
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Everyday emotional abuse and threats
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Send harassing messages to employees, saying firms pay high but employees work slow & go back on time (even when work for the day is done). Even saying employees work like government (stereotype) Threaten to pay us government salary & demand employees to resign and acts like nothing happened the next day. Happens once or twice every year
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
Clerks are being too bossy and trying to take control over the pupils when their superiors are not around. Spreading rumours and trying to play the fault blaming game. Scold pupils for their inefficiency. Never bother to get work done on time nevertheless still claim for OT when all they do is chit chatting and watch YouTube, go online shopping while the pupils are the one rushing their OT work. Creating an unfriendly working environment between lawyers and pupils. Being rude to pupils because their superior are not around. Giving their work to the pupils while they sit and gossip. However when work is done wrongly or there are some minor mistake, they will fault blame the pupils whenever possible.
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One particular lawyer is being extremely rude to pupils, using all kind of harsh words on the pupils causing mental pressure on the pupil which in time the pupil start to develop panic attack after several occasion.
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Boss pressure lawyers doing unnecessary stuff
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
"Senior" belittling "juniors" being disguised as "training"
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Attempting to discredit your contributions to prevent increases in salary. But continue to pile you with menial work. Office politics on the sense the junior partner wants to monopolise the trust of the senior partner so puts people down. Didn't help that the senior partner was having an affair with the junior partner too.
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Patronising/condescending secretary
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The boss insults the employees indirectly (Impact of the insult only comes later after you have realized the meaning of the message)
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The boss would get angry at the students in front of the staffs
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
Master said she wanna kill me everyday
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When my boss's bf talked about dick rather than common deed
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Gender harassment
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Suggestive sexual comments, one time a physical contact
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I saw a colleague receiving rather harsh feedback that could have been done in a different way. Think - rude.
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Emotional harassment it is. My boss asked me once if the firm is pressuring me. Ironically, I was under pressure when she asked me that and the situation was pressing enough it made me just say no. The she said "MUST BE YOUR FAMILY THEN". I cried instantaneously cause I was so pissed by what she said but that was all I can do. Unprofessional of me but who cares. I got feelings as well.
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!)
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The supervisor is being too aggressive and loud in reflecting any mistakes by the team members to the extent that no one dares to value a mistake done as something worth learning yet everyone would be too scared to face the consequence, having to lie and emotionally/mentally pressured.
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Being scolded for no good reason
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Punchcard requirement; Used to deduct salary if late (RM1 deduction per minute); Toilet cleaning. No clerks & receptionist; Previously parking allowance couldn't be claimed; Low mileage claims. Registered LAs as Partners to get listed in bank's panel without informing LA or giving a salary raise; Force everyone to go on company trip, employees have to pay for their own food; taking in cases beyond our expertise.
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!)
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This is at a previous workplace, but young lawyers' welfare were taken so lightly it's deemed acceptable to be angry at a young lawyer for not finishing work quick enough, even though she was in the hospital for 6 days and had been finishing work in the hospital. Young lawyers were verbally abused for having to take sick leave and being unable to assist with the files.
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Psychological and emotional violence
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The usual shouting, throwing papers and files around. Disrespectful behaviour towards gender by the partner. At my previous firm there were incidents of sexual harassment.
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!)
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One of the worst cases: My boss knew that it was not me nor my colleagues' fault. He even said that out loud, but he told us that too bad we were and had to be at the receiving end of his anger because all the other people who handled the file had resigned. The turnover rate of the firm is so big that the file was handled by different people at different stages. When we joined the firm, all that was left for the case was to take decision. However, because of some issues in the pleadings and submissions, during which we have not joined the firm, we were yelled (with vulgarities every 2-3 words) at for 2 hours non-stop and intermittently for 2 weeks. We were left to clean up the mess that was done by others. The decision fortunately, was in our favour. My boss did not apologise for his absurb blaming and yelling after nor did he acknowledge our effort help with the situation
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!)
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i've been told that i learnt nothing during my study days, that i'm not serious in my work and my work is rubbish. These insults were been told in front of the staffs and my colleagues..my self-confidence is really affected after that situation..thank you.
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Being cursed and insulted
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Mentally harmed by the clerks towards storekeeper most of the time.
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MY BOSS IS AN ASS I CAN EVEN F**KING GIVE YOU THE FIRM'S NAME IF YOU CAN GUARANTEE ME THAT THEY'LL BE STOPPED ABSOLUTELY FROM HIRING PUPILS
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
Overload the person with work and then berating them for all the work done to the point to person breaks down.
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My firm's working environment is rather excellent because my colleagues never fail to teach me or help me out when I need or ask for it. Therefore my colleagues and myself have never received any violence or harm in the workplace.
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A bitchy LA yelled at me for a small mistake I made and scolded me in front of everyone in the office. If this is not humiliation, I don't know what is.
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Emotionally tortured
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!)
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Colleague getting a call from work when at her grandfather's funeral. Partner was well aware of the situation.
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Senior secretary seems to bully the chambering students when things go too personal i.e jealousy over Boss's treatment to pupils
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Being forced to be "on call" 24/7 and cancel all my plans at the last minute over weekends "just in case" the lawyers needed their documents translated into BM
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The violence mentioned came from a disgruntled client who was unhappy with our unwillingness to assist him in creating fraudulent documents and bribery.
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
Senior lawyer scolded wrong person. Favouritism.
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Being scolded and mentally tortured by being asked same question for a mistake which I don't even know why I did the mistake. Even though I have admitted that it was a mistake, the senior wasn't happy with the explanation and I was made to stand and answer her questions for almost 6 hours
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No such incident happened
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Regular shouting at a young lawyer, which can be clearly heard by his peers
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Partners sleeping with pupils or associates
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
Senior lawyer scolded wrong person. Favouritism.
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Being scolded and mentally tortured by being asked same question for a mistake which I don't even know why I did the mistake. Even though I have admitted that it was a mistake, the senior wasn't happy with the explanation and I was made to stand and answer her questions for almost 6 hours
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No such incident happened
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Regular shouting at a young lawyer, which can be clearly heard by his peers
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Partners sleeping with pupils or associates
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
Senior lawyer scolded wrong person. Favouritism.
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Being scolded and mentally tortured by being asked same question for a mistake which I don't even know why I did the mistake. Even though I have admitted that it was a mistake, the senior wasn't happy with the explanation and I was made to stand and answer her questions for almost 6 hours
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No such incident happened
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Regular shouting at a young lawyer, which can be clearly heard by his peers
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Partners sleeping with pupils or associates
Welfare & Safety 6. Please describe cases where such violence and/or harm has taken place to you or your colleague? (This survey is anonymous, here’s your chance to be heard!) ●
Verbally abusive on colleague who was advising the partners the proper way in doing the case because the partners wanted it otherwise.
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Pupil was instructed to draft a letter which was a day late. And as he was standing in front of his pupil master's room doing final proofreading along with a few other lawyers waiting in line to see the same pupil-master, the pupil-master stepped out and called out "Oi," a couple of times. The pupil, absorbed in proofreading, didn't pick this up. The lawyers by the side gave the pupil a nudge which startled him. He reacted with a yelp which his pupil-master interpreted as an inordinate behavior and immediately shouted at the pupil and challenged him to a fist fight, shouting "If you don't like it here, you can get the hell out of this firm!". The pupil master has on weekly basis made plain to the pupil that he might not sign the pupil's certificate of diligence by making references to the pupil's mistakes such as using different font size in drafting letters, by accident.
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While i was a pupil, there's no one who's willing to teach me about anything. No senior lawyers nor the staff or my master is there to show me the rope. I have to learn everything from advocacy, court procedures, court's paperwork, submission, the whole thing from A to Z my own. The tradition in our firm is to only refer to our boss (my master) as a last resort. The working environment was so stressful where as a pupil you get no respect from the staffs and it continued even when i am a full pledged lawyer. Senior lawyers either too busy to help you with your cases or they just dont bother to help even when u asked. The politic in the office is so dirty where u always have to be cautious. Its common for the senior clerks to yelled at u and they refuse to take any instruction from u. To make things worse, the senior lawyers supported their attitude.
Welfare & Safety
Support from The Bar
Support from The Bar
Support from The Bar
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
A healthier legal industry is a more competitive one. We need a different work ethos to deal with international clients.
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The welfare of pupils is overlooked. To be treated like we exist would be great. In the worst case scenarios, we are either ignored or berated to a very low point. Some pupils are easily intimidated when coming into the field and these incidents affects their overall mental well being. There is no open space to seek assistance or guidance when dealing with such issues. We are told to deal with it by our peers. One must bear in mind, that not everyone has the capacity to handle intense accusations and incidents. If the Bar were to address these concerns on behalf of the pupils, that would be great. Also, few senior practitioners intentionally make it more difficult by blocking our opportunities to learn or consistently pass remarks that dampen our enthusiasm for the practice of law. As future members of the bar, this mars our opinion of what senior practitioners are like.
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It is understandable if pupils have to replace their off days. However, some firms have taken advantage out of their authority to determine pupils' leaves. Pupils from these firms have to replace days that they have to go to court for filing etc, or even for seminars for CPD points. For an organisation that claim they fight for the good of human rights, the Bar Council has somewhat neglected to consider the welfare of the pupils.
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so?
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Because senior members of the bar tend to bully junior members, a good example would be the recent CPD motion. Secondly in court, senior members of the bar tend to bully their way before younger members.
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To protect the rights of legal practitioner and pupils too
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The Bar leaves it too much to free market when it comes to young lawyers welfare and this is detriment in the long run because it allows exploitation and oppression to occur. The Bar should be more proactive when it comes with lawyers welfare.
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look at the pupil, we got underpaid and sometimes a master would say we should pay them instead. that's unfair as we too have someone else to feed at home.
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Pupils are going to be turned off by lack of remuneration, long working hours, and stressful environment, lowering productivity as whole.
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We are in legal profession, know the law, emphasizing to uphold the rule of law and yet we are not adhering to basic law on remuneration, forcing employees to work overtime without pay, expecting employees to work on weekends
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
Still don't see how much have the bar done
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Bar more interested in external affairs & bar senior members rather protect their own interest (as employers)
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If not the Bar, who else?
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Because that is their main job. They should prioritise the welfare of the lawyers first, then only politics!
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They are supposed to represent ALL lawyers obviously.
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Time make it inevitable that in every profession, the young ones replace the old
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Nil
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To ensure that the interest, rights and safety of the members are being taken care of.
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Clearly, it is not implemented.
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Because theyre supposed to represent the whole Bar members not their own interests t only
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Activities are held but the participation from pupil are restraint by the master . Thus rules need to be enactef pertaining to this issue.
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
Aren't doing anything
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Initiatives have not been effective especially in smaller firms
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The Bar Council is responsible for the lawyers it represents. Members of the Bar elected the Bar Council. If a ruling government is responsible for its people, so is the Bar Council responsible for its members.
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Because they are too busy playing politics and acting like a political party rather than taking care of lawyers' welfare.
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Because the Bar had failed to protect the pupils and young lawyers welfare. The Bar is only intrested with political issues in Malaysia.
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That is the duty of the bar
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Pupils have no platform to connect with the Bar
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At the end of the day, we are still considered as cheap labour. Only in the legal fraternity that interns/chambering students/first year associates 'deserve' a low pay because we do not have enough working experience. Even clerks with no work experience outside the legal fraternity earns so much more than lawyers these days.
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
The Bar council's mentality is highly skewed towards the mentality and interests of senior lawyers
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Because they are the governing body and it is their role to assist lawyers to have a better workplace.
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Nothing provided to protect a pupil's welfare.
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To oversee proper guidance
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Welfare of pupils are not regulated properly. Pupils are almost similar to a persona non grata standing
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The bar should involve themself in monitoring pupils. Some pupils only get a few hundreds Ringgit of allowance and they have no choice to do it at another firm. Money is not everything but to work, spend and live like a full time employee, money is significant.
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Bar Council should standardized the remuneration rate throughout all Malaysia states. The remuneration rate should not be so low as it it feels like the pupil had been downgraded even though we have degree in law. Plus, the workload that we did throughout the pupilage sometimes were too much and did not balance with the salary that we got. So, bar council needs to protect the pupil as the member of the legal profession.
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welfare, recent amendement to allow discount on legal fees is detrimental.
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so?
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Bar Council is more interested in others than it is with the legal profession
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CAUSE YOU'RE FAILING MISERABLY
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to make sure it is as good as now
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Too many pupils and young lawyers suffer mental and emotional stress due to the work environment, ethics, culture and management but nothing is being done about it. If any lawyer approaches any senior lawyer to state their problem they will be rebuffed by answered that their time was worse and the younger generation is too lazy now without understanding what's actually happening.
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I've recently faced a serious difficulty in regards to my pupillage petition and along the way have been assisted by both my state bar committee and the national bar council so I really have nothing to complain but a whole lot of gratitude to both parties.
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Why not?
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
Doing good to protect the interest of the legal field, too liberiase would impact the legal industry to certain extent that cash is king, firm with full load of cash can advertise in whatever channel including online media. We really don't need a law firm to appear in viralcham etc. Sooner of later there won't be necessary to find a lawyer in bar council website as everything can be google, others should get a degree in computer science instead, then creating websites selling templete that's it. Even listing legal firm for a fees is unacceptable. Bar council should not be too liberiase to allow such thing to happen.
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The bar is the right body to fulfilling the abovementioned Act. Besides, if Bar can be so active in response to the current issues why not they do so in providing and monitoring welfare of pupil in chamber
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To protect the welfare of the newly admitted members and pupils
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Being in a position where we're subject to all sorts of prejudice and blame, if the Bar doesn't protect us, who will?
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Because you will hardly find any young lawyers/pupils in KL who are happy or even passably content with their experience working at law firms
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
We are members of the bar and bar is there to protect our interest. Nothing positive has been done to address the issues related to fair wage and personal development. They are readily imposing rules to make the young practitioners to join courses. They are not reaching to small firms and lawyers with lesser salary. They stress level doesn't correspond with the wages received. Those who are joining bar council events are mostly from big firms. Bar Council is not taking initiative to ensure the participation of all members of the bar.
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Quite impossible to monitor activities in each and every firm. Bar council already has enough activities and forums which allow lawyers to communicate mingle and discuss issues
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Pupils are often taken advantage of and there doesn't seem to be any rule to ensure pupils interests and/or wellbeing are protected
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We have many good rules. But the enforcement is poor. No standard practice of sro. Lawyers competing giving discount to secure jobs. Bankers asking comission for every cases referred to the extend 50% of the legal fees. No commission, no case. The practice is killing the legal industry. May be this is fine with big firms. But what about the rest?
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
because they are the only body that govern lawyers, as such lawyers welfare should be their priority. bar should seriously look into narrowing the gap in remuneration packages that is offers to in house counsels an practicing lawyers
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To protect our interest against the current economy
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Many of us didnt get the fair treatment and our right is violated, leading to depression.
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Yes. The Bar should be more active in implementing the abovesaid provision
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They should at least monitor mimimum wages for young lawyers
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There is no other body for such function!
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There has been no changes for lawyers salary and no regulations or guideline has been established. Despite the increases of cost of living nowadays, we young lawyers still received the same salary from 15 - 20 years ago. Its ridiculous.
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Because we only dependant on bar council. No other body will fight for us. In addition, we paid annual subscription and practice certificate to bar council. Thus, who else should fight and protect if not the malaysian bar.
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
Because I dont feel like protected by the bar
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There is lack of their roles in ensuring the welfare of the lawyers
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Should be left to supply and demand
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As a pupil, we have no idea what's going on at due to the accessibility of the guidance material
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It's not difficult given that nothing is being done
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If not then what are they for?
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More has to be done
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If the Bar can talk so loudly about judges and politics and human rights I believe it is time that the Bar also did something even more to show that it cares for its young lawyers' human rights too. They have the Young Lawyers' Comittee but it is not as vocal as NUBE or CUEPACS (groups that protect other employees in other sectors)
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Because my master has received a lot of complaint and been brought to the disciplinary board a lot of times but never strike off from the rolls of advocate and solicitors. Im of the opinion that he had been saved by his seniority.
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
Should promote fair remuneration to young lawyers outside KL.
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Because the Pupils had no medium to give their feedback over their experience at the fim for 9 months
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Bar Council should protect our welfare interest more than their political agenda!
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Young lawyers have more progressive ideas but are governed by a different generation and a gap is present in between them which has not been bridged and will need to bridged to discourage high turnover
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As a young lawyer, it's easy to be bullied and not know any better. It's also very easy to be taken advantage of without even realising it.
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There's too much politicking going on in the Bar
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Then we don't really need complain much, do we?
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To bring up the standard of the legal profession in Peninsular and ensure the quality of lawyers across the board (not just young lawyers!)
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With the annual fees of renewing the lisence being paid to them, the least that they could do is to ensure none of the fellow members of the Bar are being paid paid below market rate. It seems as if as lawyers (be it litigation or conveyancing) we are always fighting for the the clients rights, yet our own is sidelined.
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
Because young lawyers' welfafe and remuneration are not protected. Highly oppressed by the bosses in terms of remuneration and welfare. Heavy work loads with low paid and minimal welfare would definitely bring down one's passionate in legal profession as everyone of us is working for living and earning. Only those with wealth are eligible to work for interest and passionate. No money no dream because you have to feed yourself first before you could achieve dream. Senior lawyers always like to compare young lawyers with their old times. I think it is highly unfair! Look at the present currency, how they can compare something when the difference and/ or the gaps in between is so high! I understand that the senior lawyers always complain about the quality, responsiblity, etc of the young lawyers, hey think about it, what causes all these? When a young lawyer could not even sustain himself or herself, do you think the young lawyer is willing to work harder? I doubt so. We would rather spend time doing something else to get side income. Forget about bringing family to travel or spending some quality time with family! Thats the reason why tonnes of the young lawyers would opt to open up their own firm. Who causes the current scenario? Think about it. By the time we have some extra money and would want to bring parents for a vacation, our parents may not be in a good health to join for it. Spending so much of time and effort to get a law degree and yet earning so less where a person without any degree cert can even earn higher than us. Sincerely from a young lawyer in 2nd year's practice but still getting 1st year lawyer's paid.
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
Pupillage is the starting point for a budding lawyer and therefore the time spent throughout will determine one's career choice in the future. If throughout such period of time, a pupil does not get the proper training/mentoring that is required, then he/she might not even think of pursuing legal practice after being called to the bar. What most pupils get to do nowadays are merely secretarial work which makes it redundant to have support staffs im the first place. The title 'Master' brings no significance as it is merely a ruling that is to be adhered to and most pupils would end up learning from the support staffs instead of lawyers. As seniority and hierarchy are still highly prevalent in this industry, some senior lawyers have the thinking that they don't have time to share knowledge and guide the younger generation. Some of them even believe that just because they once suffered throughout their pupillage, they should impart the same over the younger generation which I believe is very old fashioned and not progressive.
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Pupils and young lawyers are expected to tolerate the stress and abuse and low salary with threat of not being retain or considered worrhy as legal associate.
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Why not? That's one of the many purposes of the Bar!
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To safe guard the future of this legal fraternity. If all pupils go bonkers and unfit, that will be the end of us.
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Bar has almost zero relevance and influence over law firm employers.
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so? ●
For obvious reasons.
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The master can choose not to sign the Certificate of Diligence by saying that the pupil is not diligent enough, which is very subjective. The Bar should come out with a clear threshold to avoid the masters from simply refusing to sign the Certificate of Diligence.
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No point having the provision if it cannot be fulfilled.
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There is still a lack of emphasis in pupils' welfare
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lawyer welfare should be concerned more in term of salary, stress
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I think Bar Council should preserve the current status, it could be improved, still have the space for improvements
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I've seen the effort by them
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Because they are hardly doing anything at all?
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There is more that can be done
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They should set a minimum wages rulings and impose on all legal firms
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Simply because we are the member of the bar. If the bar is reluctant in doing so, then who else?
Support from The Bar 4. Why do you say so?
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Simply because we are the member of the bar. If the bar is reluctant in doing so, then who else?
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Because state bar is the only medium for lawyers to turn back for every problem and the only place where lawyers can together find solution
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Because the its the only governing body for lawyers in the country and therefore should ensure that their lawyers have the full package.
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So far they are doing well
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Bar Council represents the lawyers in Malaysia.
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Something has to be done.
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Other (9)
Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
Be more accessible to workplace issues. Actively investigate complaints. Young lawyers should feel supported and part of a wider community that doesn't tolerate bad behaviour by seniors that have no business running a law firm.
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If at all possible, exempt pupils from paying fees for CPD events. With the disparity in terms of allowance given, not many are able to attend these sessions free of worry.
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Monitor how firms determine leaves and replacements for the pupils. Ensure that firms aren't given complete authority over it, that they may abuse it according to their whims and fancies.
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By abolishing the seniority mentality that exists in the bar
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Organize more interesting forums and activities
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Take care of our welfare
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Allow pupils/ young lawyers to decide the welfare on their own by involving them in decision making pertaining to their own welfare.
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please put up forms, hotline, special committee to oversee pupillage
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The statute is vague in its meaning without providing any real leverage whatsoever
Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
Take care pupils & young lawyers' welfare
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By not letting senior lawyers get away with mistreatment of juniors
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Start issuing guidelines and rules with regards to pupils and junior lawyers. We are not there to gan egos nor do the photocopying. We want to focus on legal work efficiently. The more time we spend on it, with the proper guidance, the more efficient it will be for the whole firm.
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Restrict overtime working hours or if need be, impose mandatory overtime allowances
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Take complaints from pupils and young lawyers more seriously. They are usually dismissed as 'problematic millenial complaints'
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Take care of pupils' mental health
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I think the Bar Council needs to set the objectives it wants to achieve and plan for short term and long term goals. And there should be a proper succession plan for long term goals, so those plans don't get shelved and do not see the light of day. Just my 2 cents. Thanks!
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Less politics and give more concern to your members please.
Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976?
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The Bar Council should protect the welfare of pupils and young lawyers. The allowance and salary should be look after and revised by the Bar.
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Organise compulsory events/programmes involving the pupils
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Conducting more and frequent surveys such as this.
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Institute an anti-harassment (bullying and discrimination is also harassment) policy for members of the bar, but sanctions for contraventions.
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Incorporate some of the bar council rulings into the LPA i.e. we're allowed to take days off so long as we replace it, legal aid duty days are compulsory so boss cannot ask you to just skip and replace after your 9 months pupillage ends and most importantly, state clearly the amount for minimum allowance!!
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Check on the pupils regularly. Maybe ask them to come to the bar council once in a while so that if they have problems, they know there are channels to express them
Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
Keep on updated with the state bar and the pupil himself/herself. If possible, every month. Make us easily accessed to the Bar and always feel free to hear the pupil's problem in every aspects including the procedure on how to fill the form 1 to form 8 until long call. It is better if the Bar can assist us by providing the guidelines book for pupillage. Besides, regarding the remuneration, maybe the Bar Council can come out with the remuneration schedule so that the rate is uniform throughout Malaysia. And it is better if the bar set the minimum rate for pupil.
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Practice more transparency, ensure that young practitioners/pupil are not oppressed, seriously consider the concerns of the members of the profession within.
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They should conduct anonymous survey and also talks and meetings with the employers to make sure they know what work method is acceptable and what is not.
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The bar should set a guideline and minimum standart ti master pupil and also enforcing it. Not just on paper.
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Have a certain qualification for people to become Masters.
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Take real action against firms that mistreat their pupils while at the same time protecting the identity of the informers lest it affects their current or future career prospects
Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
Provide guidelines on matters relating to treatment of pupils in Chambers such as setting a minimum salary
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BC must look into the problem seriously and action must be taken and the rule must be enforced WIthout Fear or Favor!
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make compulsory healthcare benefits for lawyers by its employers. women lawyer to be given maternity perks
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Monitoring young lawyer by doing a simple survey every month. So everyone could be heard in their own way.
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When submitting forms for chambering the employer must disclose allowance given to the pupil
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conduct dialogues and make plain to lawyers of a better standard of treating pupils and younger lawyers.
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Fist and foremost, establish a guideline/regulate reasonable minimum salary for young lawyers and pupils. Law firm especially in a small towns hardly has any medical benefit, no subsidize for phone bills, no payment for overtime.
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Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
Get knowing more the walfare matter of members especially more concern with small and medium firm. We try to survive. Like peribahasa melayu kais pagi makan pagi kais petang makan petang.. what we earn is just enough to survive.
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Create more activities for stress management. Give more spaces for young lawyers to share their problems especially those who practice outside kl and selangor
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Enforced rules on employer in regards to the welfare of the lawyers
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Increase accessibility of guidance material, update more often, and also more enforcement on complain
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Start by making senior lawyers who hoard money give some of it up to their pupils.
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Please provide a minimum wage as we are being severely underpaid
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Standardised the remuneration of lawyers based on number of years in practice
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Implement a standard starting salary for new lawyers ie. RM 3000 minimum, in all states.
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The Bar Council can easily LEARN from other organisations/groups. Look at how they protect their members. If they can so can the Bar. Enough said.
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Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
Give short date for a lawyer to appear before the disciplinary board whenever there is a complaint from complainant. The lawyer must then show cause. The cause must be proved. This is a disciplinary board for god sakes. Be more serious in enforcing the law. Save pupil like me.
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Conduct a compulsory Pupil Valuation Report so that a Firm will strive to improve themselves not to treat Pupils as a cheap labour work force.
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Push for PUPILS MINIMUM WAGE POLICY
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No suggestion given as the root cause of the problem is about perception. Perception can never be cured. If and only if the senior lawyers are willing to listen to us and stop camparing their old times with our present times.
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Conduct courses for the higher-ups to instill awareness in the ways in which they are not contributing and may in fact be harming the wellfare of the young
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Establishing forums and anonymous discussions for young lawyers and pupils. Or whatever avenue that young lawyers and pupils can easily access to file complaints or gather feedback.
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Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
For start, the bar has to be more proactive with regards to the welfare of pupils and young lawyers. For pupillage, I believe the ideal is to have a standardised training course to be applied by all legal firms. Perhaps they should implement a scheduled monthly report to be submitted by pupils to oversee a pupil's development and progress over the tasks that they've been assigned with. Another way is by implementing compulsory training courses to be conducted by bar council or state bar committees, i.e drafting and advocacy sessions to be attended by pupils. That should at least give some insight on how legal practice really operates, instead of being pushed into the ocean to find for answers. Pupils are not trained, we are forced to learn on our own and to make mistakes. Mistakes are necessary for a human being as it is the best teacher. However when one is punished for such mistakes when in fact they were not even provided with guidance in the first place is very demoralising and unprogressive.
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More active guidance to firms.
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Reach to us young lawyers, which is currently what they should do. Went to AGM last year, the attendees are mostly the oldies, young lawyers don't give two sheets. What we young ones see is that the Bar only talks about politics. What about the young lawyer's welfare? Reach to us.
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Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
Set up more committees to represent the voices of the unheard in various state, not just KL
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Please ensure all members of the Bar are being remunerated accordingly. Maybe they should set a rule where certain percentage of the firm's profit to be remunerated to the lawyers instead of the partners hogging it all on their own while the lawyers are being left dried out physically and emotionally without any sort of consideration given to them.
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Promote harmonious environment in law firms and eradicate the culture of pupils and young lawyers are expected to accept whatever the seniors hand us like expectation of walking to court which is 30 mins away from the firm just because the did it when they were juniors. Just because they suffered doesn't mean that we have to suffer too.
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This survey is a good start. Please maintain and improve in parallel with the complaint.
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Must be back up workers. More pressure to employer which pay workers with small amount salary. And take law action more to employer who have make their workers stress out.
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Regulate firms re pupils development/remunaration. Don't be their lackys.
Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
Come out with a clear regulation for the meaning of "due diligence" in the Borang 8 (Certificate of Diligence) of the LPA. Also, there must be a contract that governs the relationship and minimum wages and allowances between the pupil and master.
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Reprimand law firms which disregard it's pupils' welfare
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increase min salary/charges, develop more training.
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discipline of the member. I saw some member publicly break the rules, but nothing has effected on him/her
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Discussions and meetings with pupil masters
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Ensure the welfare of pupil
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Most importantly by coming up with compulsory and affirmative guidelines in ensuring young lawyers and pupils get remunerated in a moderate way, taking into account current economic standing. Monthly pay is the biggest pointer in ensuring lawyers have the ability to take care of themselves in more ways than one rather than just working round the clock for their client's benefit.
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Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976? ●
So far they are doing well.
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To set the minimum wage policy for pupil and young lawyers as we are not appropriately compensated for what we have sacrificed.
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Be fair to all.
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Implement a law relating to pupillage
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Generalising pupilage rules
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Ensure fairer wage remuneration for pupils and LAs. There is little to no motivation for potential or new lawyers to work. The time spent doing OT amounts up to very little pay considering the per hour pay. And the progression rate for lawyers are long. Considering our current economic climate, I for one do not see being a lawyer as a long term and sustainable career. The tradeoff of making partner is too long and unfair to those who are currently not as well off.
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By having more activities involving young lawyers and not just a syok sendiri event
Support from The Bar 5. (if yes to Question 3) Do you have any suggestions for the ways in which the Bar Council can be more actively involved in fulfilling s.42(1)(e) of the LPA 1976?
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young lawyers and pupils welfare
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No.
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To let the firms know to treat us as is. Pay us with a reasonable pay with the workloads. Not to follow the TRADITION of a pupil is just a pupil.
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I don't know what solution to give you. Maybe let the hierarchical and selfish partners know that pupils are human too? They should stop advocating for human rights when they don't even give basic human dignity to their employees. Oh wait, pupils are not employees.
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Issue guidelines on pupillage to firms
Mental Health
Mental Health
Mental Health
Mental Health
Mental Health
Mental Health
Mental Health
Mental Health
Mental Health
Mental Health
Mental Health ●
Have a programme in the first place! Also our insurance coverage is so bad, good luck if you think you're going to get psychiatric referrals!
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Anger management course
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Allow associates to take medical leave when sick and allow them to take vacation days
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1. Acknowledge problems re mental health 2. Share personal experiences re mental health - ie, young lawyer XYZ is not alone 3. Share solutions to mental health problems.
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My workplace should provide supports.
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To advocate on the importance of mental health, have a healthy culture to ensure non of employee is overworked. Organize after work yoga sessions
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My workplace should not take advantage of its employees who although are willing to work overtime, also has limits to the pressure put on them.
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Compulsory off on Saturday and Sunday, better support system, enough resources, acknowledge the effort
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Show care for employees remuneration
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Be supportive
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Better file management and a willingness to listen.
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Speak to their lawyers and try to understand their position. Communicate.
Mental Health ●
They should check on how the lawyers are actually doing rather than continually assuming that they'll be able to handle the workload. They have to stop expecting the lawyers to work round the clock even after hours and on weekends. We need to be able to shut down without having to worry about a call coming in from the boss/client.
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This stingy firm With a legacy of over 45 years having been established in April 1972, would not do anything. They just want you to work overtime daily including on Saturday and Sunday. When you indicate you can't come in on any saturday and Sunday, then the boss will purposely fix on that particular day, saying that how he got important stuff to do /finalise you-don't-come-it's-your-loss-as-a-pupil. You cancelled off your original plan/appointment and came in, he didn't even come in at last.
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They not willing to provide such, profit is more important.
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Pay more attention, talk about things outside of work.
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Offer a month of holiday may be.
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Not sure
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Regular firm meeting and outing in improving mental health. Support group sports activities etc
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Not appreciating the staff
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Prove sufficient training for young lawyers so that young lawyers are not self struggling when the senior counsel are not supportive
Mental Health
Overall
Overall
Overall 3. How could your overall experience as a junior lawyer/pupil be improved? ●
Think there needs to be some thought given to other benefits (medical insurance, sports, community engagement activities). It also has to be more than lip service provision of these benefits. It would also be best if there wasn't so much diversity in how different pupils with different teams are taught. Our firm did not have a rotational programme- and I think that decreases equal opportunity as well as exposure for the individual.
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If the Pupil Master could show interest in the learning of the pupil, or at least take time to listen to his/her direction, pursuit , offer sound advice and guidance, this would be great.
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When masters
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Be appreciated more by the higher people
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handling my own files from the beginning rather than continuing other lawyer's files which are partly done by them already
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With exposure and guidance
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proper guidance from senior lawyer or cresting connections/network with peers
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humane allowance
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More guidance from senior lawyers
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Boss needs management training. Boss needs to be supervised to ensure that the working environment is healthy.
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Get more autonomy on cases and minimal supervision on support stagfs
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Rewarded accordingly
Overall 3. How could your overall experience as a junior lawyer/pupil be improved? ●
Stop the office politics and work properly in a team. Ensure resources deployed correctly and at the right time (support staff do admin and photocopying and what not - lawyers and students concentrate on the important legal work)
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Higher allowance and/or perks.
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To be given a list of rights, in relation to wages, hours, and a checklist of work we must be exposed to.
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Need serious guidance from pupil master
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Masters should be more appreciative towards pupils
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to treat the pupils and junior lawyers with respect and to employ with the intention to guide and teach
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Less overtime or higher pay
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Just treat us as human being and be modern. Seniority is so 20th century
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Assistance and proper guide from master without dragging her personal problems
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Provide a humane, reasonable work culture and remuneration package. Firms should compare themselves to work cultures of companies rather than other firms since most firms practice the same abominable work culture and abysmal remuneration and benefits package as well.
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Impartiality
Overall 3. How could your overall experience as a junior lawyer/pupil be improved?
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I think a concern for my welfare would help.
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Provide young lawyers with opportunity to grow; career wise, practice wise. Pay them adequately. They are not asking for diamonds but just enough to pay their bills. JUST ENOUGH TO PAY THEIR BILLS.
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Higher salary. Less workload.
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find boss who appreciate your existance and pays you accordingly not underpaid.
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More supports from senior lawyers.
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Motivated
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More transparency. Welfare of staffs shouldn't be ignored.
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If my welfare is protected by the bar council
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We need to improve the working life culture at law firms
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Better pay
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To have a buddy system at least for the first 3 months. So you would know how to get things done
Overall 3. How could your overall experience as a junior lawyer/pupil be improved? ●
My master should not use mentally hurtful words everytime he wanted to scold me. He can just scold me and i will accept my wrongful did openly.
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Bosses are more aware and care more about employees welfare and not their own pockets
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Address a minimum fee scale for clients. I believe the under appreciated/low rewarding remuneration pupils or young lawyers stems from the over competitive market which drives firms to do or attempt to do the impossible. Essentially, firms are "under-cutting" each other. I do not see any GP of medicine suffer the same fate. You got to a clinic, no one asks for a discount. You're respected. Coupled with the KPI on Judges, the litigation associate barely has anytime to take a breather rushing to complete a document, who then realizes that it is marred with mistakes. Lawyers are expected to be machines. Fast, accurate, without mistake.
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more communication and more pay
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More emotional support with better remuneration. Also to be appreciated for all the work done.
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More opportunities to attend court
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Never ever step in the legal profession. My life would have been so much better had I just worked in another industry. Fuck law.
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By open to a new chances of conducting my own trial
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For senior lawyers to give more guidance.
Overall 3. How could your overall experience as a junior lawyer/pupil be improved? ●
Being paid fairly
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More discussions on legal issues and solutions. Discussions will help young lawyers to see the broader perspective.
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Master and direct boss practiced favoutism, were unreasonable, verbally or mentally abusive. Should not allow bosses to act this way. I worked well with other bosses and senior associates.
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More understanding pupil master who does not blame everything using the label 'millennials'
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better guidance from senior lawyers
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Lengthening the period of pupillage
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Having a pupil master who genuinely is concerned for raising new lawyers
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Less office politic, support and guidance from senior lawyers and staffs.
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Gain more knowledge
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By the existence of supportive senior
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The employer should care more about the well being of his employee
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Employer should give annual increment
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More guidance and supervise
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Supportive superior
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Better guidance and pay
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If the boss could appreciate more & be more flexible to my work-life balance
Overall 3. How could your overall experience as a junior lawyer/pupil be improved? ●
support and trust from master
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Make a standard operating procedure. Minimum wages and maximum working hours. Most of all we're not slaves
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Fair remuneration, more guidance and support
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For now it is best that such experience be found at a new workplace. The search is Still ongoing.
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By strict enforcement of the LPA.
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If we can have fun while working at the same time.
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Less favouritism among the partners
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I appreciate if there's a structured and standardized pupillage modules
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Looking for a really good boss
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Better opportunities to meet financial target resulting in better remuneration for the hours and effort spent at work
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If I wasn't working on such short/insane deadlines especially during peak season where 4-5 things can be due on a day.
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For start, increase the allowance of pupils. Pupils are still earning below RM2k, some even lower than RM1k. There is no minimum wage for pupils. What is an extra RM500-1000 to a law firm which generates so much income per month. Pupils are not stupid as we too can calculate how much the partner is making every month and how much costs are incurred. Plus looking at the workload that is given to a pupil with the remuneration that they get in return, it makes one to contemplate over continuing practising in the future.
Overall 3. How could your overall experience as a junior lawyer/pupil be improved? ●
Yearly increase and more benefits.
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A more structured management in the firm to take care of the ones who are at the bottom of the food chain
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appreciation and better SALARY
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Have minimum salary instead of "you are lucky to be given allowance", maximum working hours or give OT to ensure that they don't abuse our working time and eradicate the "since we suffered, you have to suffer too" culture. Its not a revenge game.
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Proper administration management
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I am deciding whether to cease practice
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Give less pressures and workload.
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Master/partners/associates treat you like a fellow human being.
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Do more substantive works like drafting statement of claims and attend trials
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More guidance from seniors, better remuneration
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A better senior or superior and healthier working environment
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Having a good leader instead of a good boss who teaches instead of commands. Corrects mistakes, not scolds. And don't make me OT for standby because 'I might be needed later'.
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Less biasedness, more work life balance, less office politics, more friends in the firm
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need to gain more experience and learn from senior
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It would be better if no office politics, at least.
Overall 3. How could your overall experience as a junior lawyer/pupil be improved? ●
Social activities in the firm
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Better office administration system
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Young lawyers and pupils should be given more recognition. We are not cheap Labours!
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By high remuneration
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So far its good, manageable but thats because I have got good support from my bosses and colleagues. But everything can be improved from time to time so and check and balance exercise must always be conducted by the Bar Council to ensure that lawyers of all ages dont suffer from burn out, stress and serious health issues.
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So far my current firm treating me good. I'm feeling good and respectful here compare to my previous firm.
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Increase salary.
Overall 4. If there were to be a Code of Conduct for Pupil Masters/Supervising Partners, what should be included in it? ●
Weekly meetings
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Mutual respect
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No vulgar words to be used when communicating/scolding.
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Do not let your emotional/stress attitude affects other people.
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Minimum wage for pupils and lawyers
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matters pertaining to pupilage especially salaries
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Open mindedness
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Penalties for emotional abuse
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No favouritism
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Can't think of anything
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Pay should reflect level of effort put in. Be ethical to your employees. It is an outright lie that you can't afford to increase the pay or give bonuses to your staff, when the firm is making millions in profits. Stop lying and share more, after all the wealth and fortune is built atop the blood, sweat and tears of juniors.
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Adherence by employers, and what we may expect from employers
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Words of appreciation
Overall 4. If there were to be a Code of Conduct for Pupil Masters/Supervising Partners, what should be included in it? ●
Do not abuse pupils or young lawyers in working overtime
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No bullying
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Code of conduct related to work management
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That senior partners or lawyers should not , in any circumstance, use or exert power or position to coerce lawyers and/or pupils into doing things which are not directly rrelated to the legal work they are doing.
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That depends - who is the Code of Conduct for? Thanks!
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No idea
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Master and partners attitude and responsibility towards pupils and young lawyers.
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Manners in guiding or educating the pupils
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Anti-harassment clause
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Play an active role in caring about your pupil as a person and not just take on your pupil because it adds to workforce of your firm
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No history of illegal activities (eg CBT) or cases of their own conduct
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not to expect we know everything just because we are graduated from law school
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Renumeration, filing fees of petition, sick leave and normal leave (not having to go through the lengthy process as LPA)
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There should be assessment made by the representative of the bar to every pupil once every 3 months.
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No mental abusing. No toxic partner purposely trying to pick on young lawyers.
Overall 4. If there were to be a Code of Conduct for Pupil Masters/Supervising Partners, what should be included in it? ●
To treat junior lawyers with dignity, not exploit and abuse them
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To learn/teach to each of their best ability.
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pay at least 900 minimum
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Be more human and understanding.
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Minimum wage would be a good start
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respect
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Let pupils go home at 6pm sharp
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The minimum allowance/salary, the overtime, the benefits, increment and bonus. The working hours.
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To not take a pupil for granted
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How involved a partner should be in mentoring a pupil. They are not just for cheap labour. They will grow up to become the future leaders and lawyers of tomorrow. So if you want a better tomorrow, sow a good seed today.
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A way to make Masters accountable for the exposure given to their pupils or lack thereof
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Some sort of warning of punishment for pupils who do not take the chambering experience seriously, and also warning of punishment for supervising partners who abuse their position (verbally too abusive, favouritism, overwork subordinates)
Overall ●
4. If there were to be a Code of Conduct for Pupil Masters/Supervising Partners, what should be included in it?
Master must paid the cost for pupil to file all the documents relating to the pupillage.If he/she fail to do so,he/she should not be allowed to have any pupillage under he/she later on.
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How to manage and encourage the new workforce
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masters show the hands on experience to pupils
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Responsibilities of both parties, restricted actions, greater clarity on instances in which pupil master can refuse to sign certificate of diligence.
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Obligation of supervisor and pupil
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They are supposed to treat the lawyers/pupil with more respect
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Master should conduct course or mini lecture on the pupilage period. Encourage pupil to raise issue that they experience through out the pupilage period
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How to treat your staffs , emotionally.
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treat people like how you want you to be treated
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to treat pupils with politeness and with confidence
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Minimum wages, maximum working hours and work life balance
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Teamwork and teambuilding
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The pupil must have the absolute right to take leave and be excused to complete their pupilage program with state bar and complete the legal aid programs
Overall 4. If there were to be a Code of Conduct for Pupil Masters/Supervising Partners, what should be included in it? ●
Buat lahhhh holiday firm kasi stress reliever to your employees. Asyik2 hang ja yg nak pergi holiday oversea. Annoying!
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Masters should ensure that the Pupils learned as much as he can in the field the masters are practising and also others field the Firm practising.
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Welfare of the pupils
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No idea. Even if implemented, will everyone of us follow?
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Always treat pupil as human too
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Respect for others irrespective of their young age. Equal rights for all.
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There should be a minimum number of contact hours between the Pupil and Pupil Master.
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They should be highly involved with their pupil's progress throughout the whole period and not merely come on the day to robe their pupils.
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Reduce politicking
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Yup, without thinking twice.
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Pupil master must guide their pupil(s) personally and practically. If the pupil master is unable to fulfill this requirement, please do not take in any pupils to be under your wing.
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to respect the pupil's duty to serve the legal aid and not penalize them for it. better supervision and a general framework for all firms to use as guidelines so that the pupils presence would not be wasted as runners and despatches of the firm
Overall 4. If there were to be a Code of Conduct for Pupil Masters/Supervising Partners, what should be included in it? ●
1. We have a voice. " you are to be seen but not heard" is wrong. 2. Training by way of " if we shout and shame you now, you can face the nasty judges" is too draconian. 3. Pupil should mainly do the task given by the master instead of " its your duty to do what the seniors ask you to do" which includes throw the rubbish, walk to court and send us to court even before we file our borang 1&2 and lie that none of the lawyers and partners can attend court which is 10minutes away from the firm because "senior lawyers don't attend case management, only pupils attend", and if pupil without locus go to court to ask other lawyers to MOB, the firm doesn't have to pay for MOB fees. 4. Pupils are to be treated with respect, not being shouted at merely because the master is demanding and impatient. Merely giving warning that master is demanding doesn't amount to a license to shout frequently at all the pupils. 5. It is wrong to purposely and often give assignments after working hours or right after working hours and pupils are not allowed to go back until we finished all the work given. There's no way we can finish if almost every alternate days tasks are give at 6.30pm (working hours are until 6). We would then have ro work until 10pm and bring home files to do and submit the next day 8.30am. 6. Pupils are free to decide whether they want to be retained after pupilage, instead of expecting nasty comments and ugly gossips from the firm to others if the pupil chooses to leave the firm after pupilage. 7. Don't expect us to wear branded clothes when we merely have RM800 as allowance. 8. Transportation allowances at the same state and town should be given. 9. There should not be a namesake master where the junior legal associate or senior admin clerk are the main source of information and guidance. 10.conduct of the master should be subjected to scrutiny by an independent body easily accessible anonymously to the pupil.
Overall 4. If there were to be a Code of Conduct for Pupil Masters/Supervising Partners, what should be included in it? ●
Prioritised the welfare of the pupil.
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Detailed do's and dont's, pay scale, what's expected of pupils and masters.
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1. The remuneration 2. Whether allowances are given for attending CPD talks and filing chambering papers 3. That the master must sign the Borang 8 at the end of the month and any necessary documents for the pupils' admission. 4. Working time and any allowances for overtime including weekends
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Partners or Senior Lawyers should not be allowed take out their anger or frustrations on juniors and pupils. Public humiliation and demeaning words such as stupid, idiot, worthless etc should be prohibited.
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Be a leader, not a boss. Teach, not command. Teach, not scold. Be punctual, not be late and make everyone OT with you.
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More guidance from pupil master, more work life balance
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yes
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Master cannot treat pupils like their own staff and expect pupils to do great at clerical job, that's what a staff should do. For what you hired staff? Pupils are future lawyer, not future staff as a clerk. Don't keep the pupils in office by not giving permisssion for him/her to join external programme because they expect you (pupils) to do job that isn't yours to begin with. Treat pupils like a lawyer with those responsibilities etc is fine, but not treating pupils like a slave, far more worse than a staff. And stop relying on staff to know about pupils, it is master's job to mentor him/her.
Overall 4. If there were to be a Code of Conduct for Pupil Masters/Supervising Partners, what should be included in it? ●
Sometimes, the staff is really overboard with her comments.
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Structured training, decorum, manners
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Minimum wages, working hours, scope of job involved only work related and not doing personal stuffs of master
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Minimum remuneration
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minimum wage, working hours, do's and donts, health screening (annualy or such - whichever fits)
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Basic remuneration, the scope of job for pupil, exposure to all sort of work
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Good. We should have it
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Should not encourage paper master.
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Pupil masters are obliged to actually ensure the pupil was given sufficient exposures. I know there are some pupil masters in big firms who just accepts pupil but do not train them. Usually the pupil are left to the associatea.
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Remuneration
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Working ethics
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Minimum wage
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Log in hours of time spent with Master outside of office (e.g. meetings, court etc)
Overall 4. If there were to be a Code of Conduct for Pupil Masters/Supervising Partners, what should be included in it?
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Sexual harrasment
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workload
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To not yell at pupil To guide the pupil with possible information To not leave the pupil hanging
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Someone to ensure the supervising partners or master are actually humane to their employees and pupils.
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Rotation
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Ensure the welfare of the lawyers are well served, ensuring the progression of young lawyers based on years of
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DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in this survey are those of the respondents’ and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of The CanLaw Report and/or CanLaw Asia Sdn Bhd.
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