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Oral History Interview Transcript of Yvonne Marie (Welch) McDougall Interviewer: Kevin L. Callahan, Eighth Air Force Historical Society of Minnesota Interviewer information: Mailing address: 1102 26th Avenue SE, Minneapolis, Minnesota, 55414; E-mail: [email protected]; Telephone: (612) 623-7685. Date of interview: May 9, 2012 Location of interview: Yvonne McDougall's home. Kevin: My name is Kevin Callahan, I'm with the 8th Air Force Historical Society of Minnesota and today's date is May 9th 2012. I'm here with Yvonne McDougall and we're in Minnetonka. Would you state your full name and give your maiden name? Yvonne: Yvonne Marie Welch McDougall Kevin: Did you go by any nicknames in the service? Yvonne: Shorty, mainly. Kevin: What is your date and place of birth? Yvonne: December 24th, 1921 Kevin: And where were you born? Yvonne: Boone, Iowa Kevin: Could you tell me a little bit about your parents and what their names were? Yvonne: My father was John Leroy Welch and he was in WW I and spent some time in France and that's where I got my name, Yvonne. My mother was Bohemian. She was a secretary before she got married. They got married and lived in Boone and then came to Marshalltown. Kevin: And I understand your father was with the Aviation group and was doing mechanical work...is that right? Well, what did he do in WW1? Yvonne: I'm not sure exactly, he spent a lot of time in France, Germany, Belgium during the war and I remember him saying he worked with the pilots and he did a lot of flying as a ballast. (laughing) Kevin: (laughing) Oh, okay, well that didn't require a lot of training...well, that's interesting. Was it with the bombers or something? Jim: They were fighters. Kevin: They were fighters? Yvonne: I know he had his uniform at home and he had the gas mask and all that. Kevin: Yes, he saw some of the action then I suppose if he was involved in all that. I know the aviation in WW I was sort of near the end of the war. Did he stay after the war in Europe then or did they discharge him home? Yvonne: No, he was sent home to Des Moines. Kevin: Did you have any brothers or sisters? Yvonne: I have one brother who is deceased, and I have two sisters, one in Pueblo, one in Iowa. Kevin: And then I understand you have a cousin who received the Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC)? Did I get that right? 1

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Yvonne: Yes. Kevin: And what was his name? Yvonne: Jack Welch Kevin: And he was involved with the Cold War spy operations over the Soviet Union right after WW2? Yvonne: Yes, he was a pilot Kevin: And then he passed away before the DFC was given to him? Yvonne: Right. Kevin: Well you have quite a bit of information about his life. It sounded like an interesting set of missions to go over the Soviet Union. That must have been quite dangerous. Did he ever talk to you about flying? Yvonne: Nobody knew anything about this at all. Kevin: It was all top secret classified operation. So when was the first time you heard about this? Was it when the DFC was awarded? Yvonne: Yes, they just let us know two or three years ago that they were awarding it. Kevin: Did they have any explanation why it was taking so long. Maybe they wanted to keep it a secret. Yvonne: Well a lot of the family went to Washington when it was awarded, but I didn't go. Kevin: So did you grow up in Iowa? Yvonne: Yes Kevin: And what schools did you attend? Yvonne: I attended Marshalltown Catholic School, called St. Mary's Institute, most of my life from K-12, and I spent a short amount of time in Des Moines at St. Joseph's Academy. Kevin: So, were you graduated from high school before Pearl Harbor happened? Yvonne: Yes? Kevin: When did you graduate from high school? Yvonne: 1940 Kevin: And did you have any interesting early jobs? I guess this would have been right at the end of the depression. Yvonne: Yes, I remember I graduated and that summer we went to a movie and we were coming home from the movie and we saw flames and we stopped to see what the flames were about and it was my school, burned up. So when I graduated they burned the school down (laughing). Kevin: (laughing) Oh was it an arson or something? That's terrible. Do you still have any reunions from the school with the building having gone? Yvonne: No, there were only 14 in my class, the last reunion I went to there were three of us. Kevin: Do you still have reunions? Yvonne: We had one, an all school reunion. There were 300 total in the whole school when I was going. Kevin: Do you have memories of where you were when you heard about the Pearl Harbor bombs dropping and the news about Pearl Harbor on December 7th? 2

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Yvonne: I really don't recall too much about it. Kevin: Well not everyone remembers much about it, but its a question I ask because there's a whole generation of people on Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day, who have no memories of it, so anyone who does remember, its good to know what the memories are. Yvonne: It was mainly a feeling of shock I think. We were very very fond of President Roosevelt, and he was the president at that time. Kevin: So you eventually became a part of the WAVES and for people who aren't familiar with the organization, what do the initials stand for? Yvonne: Women Accepted for Voluntary Emergency Service and that was started in 1942. Kevin: And that was actually a part of the US Navy? Yvonne: Yes Kevin: And how did you come to be involved, was there a period of induction, did you go through that kind of a process, or did you volunteer? Yvonne: I volunteered. Kevin: And what was the first place that you went to for your training in the WAVES? Yvonne: We went to Hunter College in the Bronx in New York and took our six week training there. From there we went to Milledgeville, Georgia to Storekeeper training school. Kevin: In New York, what kind of things did you do in the initial training? Was it familiarizing you with the way to do military things? Yvonne: You did a little bit of everything. It was really interesting. We did everything that was available. We packed parachutes . . . like we'd have one day with parachutes and another day with...well we just went through the whole gamut. Kevin: Now were you packing the parachutes for other people to use? Were you doing parachuting in your basic training? Yvonne: Well, I think at that time you packed your own parachute. Kevin: And they wanted everybody to know how to do that. So what was life like in New York? Did you have barracks? Yvonne: We were in apartments. They were brand new really nice apartments. It was a regular apartment with a kitchen and everything. But nothing there except bunks. There were two of us to a room. It was mainly marching from the apartments to college. Kevin: Well the people that were Aviation Cadets, which my dad was, said they did a lot of marching and a lot of singing. Did they have you learn songs? Yvonne: Always singing, oh yes. Kevin: Do you remember any of the songs? Yvonne: Oh yes, I remember a lot, “Don't Give up the Ship”. (laughing) Kevin: (laughing) You could probably still sing them after doing them so many times. Did you stay with the same group when you moved on to the next phase of your training or did you meet new people? Yvonne: Well, there were five of us girls when we left from Des Moines and they told us not to stand in a row, but to stand vertically, so we kept together all through the time we were in New York, but then we split up when we left New York. Kevin: And Milledgeville was in Georgia. What is it near? Is it a large town? 3

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Yvonne: Macon. And then we had a leave. I wanted to go to Atlanta, but the rest of my group wanted to go to Augustus so we went to Augustus, Georgia for the weekend. Kevin: So, they did let you out with some passes to get away. . . . So what were they training you in at Milledgeville? Yvonne: Well, it was Storekeeper school and there were two sections, one was supply and one was disbursing, and we learned both. Kevin: Did you have to type and learn any of that? Did you know any of that beforehand from high school? Yvonne: A lot of the things in the Navy depended on typing, whether you typed or not. You didn't have to type, but we took a typing test and when we went to Milledgeville there were four stories and the best typists were on the first floor, and if you didn't type at all you went to fourth floor. Kevin: (laughing) Was that an incentive so you'd get faster or something? So this was in a dormitory? The teacher's college was what it was based out of? Yvonne: Yes. Kevin: And was it one building? Were the classes based out of the same building you were living in? Yvonne: No, there were different, beautiful . . . here I have all the pictures of the halls and so on here. (shows pictures) Kevin: Oh, yes, so they came up with a set of post cards! Yvonne: And we were at Ennis Hall, which was a beautiful building. Kevin: Well, it looks like a beautiful campus. Yvonne: Yes it was, very very nice and a lot of history at Milledgeville. There's the governor's mansion and a lot of war memories. Kevin: Really? So the governor’s mansion was in Milledgeville? Yvonne: Yes, and that's in one of those. Kevin: Well that's nice they made this. I suppose this was for all the people that were going there for college they probably produced this for them. What was the name of the hall you were in? Yvonne: Ennis E-N-N-I-S Kevin: Oh yes, there a picture right here of that. Wow, that's a beautiful building. So how many weeks were you there in the training program? Yvonne: I think we probably went there from about February until May. Kevin:And when you graduated did you have a rank or something, or did you go on to a more advance school after that? Yvonne: No, when I graduated I was Seaman 2nd Classified and you had five choices of where you wanted to go and my first choice was San Diego, which I got. I went to Camp Elliot, San Diego. Kevin: And what was it about San Diego that you like of the five? Yvonne: One thing was that Jim was overseas, and he would be coming back to San Diego, and the climate. Kevin: Yes, weather people say its the nicest climate in the United States because its consistently around 65 degrees. So I guess I should back up in time. How did you meet Jim, and when did you meet Jim? 4

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Yvonne: Oh, I met Jim in 1942 in Des Moines, Iowa. I was going to business college, AIB, and Jim was at Camp Dodge in the State Guard, and we met at a dance. AIB came out to Camp Dodge. Kevin: Oh, so they were recruiting people for the dance. Well, that's pretty smart. So did you go together for a while and then get engaged? Yvonne: Well we went together from the time we met, which was March? Jim: We met in May, right around my birthday. Yvonne: Oh, was it May? Until October, when Jim was inducted. And the same day that Jim left, I got a job at Armour Creamery and my first day at Armour I was late because I was seeing Jim off on the train. Kevin: So he got you in trouble right off the bat (chuckling). And did you explain what had happened and then everything worked out? Yvonne: Oh, everything worked out. Kevin: What were you doing for Armour? Yvonne: Payroll Kevin: Oh, so you had done payroll as a job before getting into the WAVES. Yvonne: Right Kevin: Oh, okay. So then you left Georgia, did you take a train to go to San Diego? Yvonne: Yes, and that was really an experience, and I have a letter telling about it. We were really just naive Iowa people, and we had no idea that – we left New York and the weather was freezing cold. That was in February I think, and we took the train to Milledgeville and we couldn't believe people were outside without jackets. We were just amazed and the weather when we got to Milledgeville was just gorgeous. We just had no idea that there was warm weather like that. Kevin: Yes, its hard to believe; every winter you think the rest of the world must be like this, and it really isn't. So did you take the troop train, or was it a regular train? Yvonne: It was a regular train. Kevin: That's quite a distance to go on a train . . . from Georgia. Yvonne: Well fortunately, a girl got on the train and got a compartment, and as I got on the train she grabbed my arm and pulled me into the compartment, so we had a beautiful compartment on the train. Kevin: So you were at San Diego during most of the war then? Yvonne: Yes Kevin: And what was the name of the place again, where you were stationed? Yvonne: It was called TADCEN, Camp Elliott -- Training and Distribution Center. Kevin: And what was your job there? Yvonne: Store keeping, dispersing. When I came to San Diego, I wanted supply, but the disbursing officer said, “Come and spend two weeks with us, and if you don't like it, you can go to supply.” And of course I really liked dispersing, so I was in dispersing then the rest of the time. Kevin: And I understand it was done in cash back then, you didn't disburse in checks? Yvonne: No, everything was in cash. Kevin: Well, tell me about that. Did you have a guard then with the amount of cash you were handling to disburse to the sailors? 5

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Yvonne: The main thing we had was ship service that we paid. But we also paid some of the ships that came in. We would stay up all night and pay them, although we didn't get too many. I don't know because Camp Elliott is 15 miles inland, and why they would have the ships out there...I don't know. Kevin: So a ship would come in from the Pacific and they would go 15 miles inland in order to get paid? Yvonne: Right, to get paid. Kevin: So how did that work? Were they in a line and they would go past your desk to get paid? Yvonne: Yes, right. Jim: I think these ships were ships that were sunk in the Philippines. St. Lo and Gambier Bay. They brought those guys in to San Diego and set them up with the Disbursing Center to get their money and their ticket to go home. Yvonne: And we would pay them right there in the Disbursing Office. They had their ditty bags and they would just sit on them and wait. Kevin: Was this pay backpay because they had been away? Yvonne: Right. Kevin: So it was a lot of money for each of these guys. Yvonne: Right. Kevin: Okay I guess it would make it worthwhile to go 15 miles because you're getting paid for all your time in service then. Were any of these guys wounded or in bad shape? Yvonne: I don't remember, I mean I don't remember any of them being wounded. The thing that impressed me was the earrings. Kevin: What do you mean the earrings? The sailors had earrings? Yvonne: Yes,, I hadn't seen guys with earrings and I think they all had earrings. And I think there was something about switching the ears or having them in one ear when you went over and the other when you went back, I'm not sure. Jim: It was the beginning of guys wearing earrings. Kevin: Well now, wait a minute there were pirates that wore earrings. Jim: Well these guys featured themselves as very salty. Kevin: Now did you have an earring when you were over there? Jim: No. (laughing) I can recall these are mostly shipboard sailors. Kevin: Now, I've never asked this, but I had a number of people in my neighborhood growing up who had tattoos. There was a generational thing that was going on with tattoos. I was in a generation where nobody had tattoos, and now everybody who's young seems to have a tattoo. But people in WW2 especially in the service often had tattoos. Jim: The Navy Kevin: The Navy, yes. Now it would be a regular sailor that would have a tattoo not the captain. Jim: Yes right, it would be just a regular... Kevin: Yes, well most of the tattoos had faded when I was old enough to see them, but they must have looked pretty good back in the day. Jim: I have a little tattoo story. Kevin: Do you have a tattoo to show me? 6

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Jim: No. We had this guy who had this beautiful tattoo of a black panther. This panther had his claws in his arm with little drops of blood that were tattooed on there and the tail came down and curled on his wrist. Guys would admire that tattoo. So when we got back to the states this one guy said he's going over and he's gonna get a tattoo “like Duck's” we called that guy Duck. So I guess he got to drinking and he came back and they said, “Well let's see your tattoo” and it was Felix the Cat. (laughing) Kevin: (laughing) It wasn't a panther at all. Jim: He's sorry he ever got that tattoo. Kevin: So what was the period of time that you were in San Diego. Was it up until the end of the war? Yvonne: I got an emergency discharge because my mother had died. I left August 15th of '45. Kevin: That was pretty close to the end of the war. You had to go home to take care of things? Yvonne: If I would have stayed in the Navy, I would have been sent to Chicago to muster out. I would have been the last person to leave. Kevin: Were they doing points like they did with some of the guys? Yvonne: I don't recall points with the girls. So I don't know. Kevin: Were you pretty close to some of the other WAVES? Yvonne: Just a couple of them. Kevin: I've seen the picture of the San Diego building and it looked like there were a lot of people that were working in the building. Was it a large building? Yvonne: You mean the disbursing? Yes it was. . . let's see, there was one picture here of the . . . this is the dispersing office, part of it, and there's a little place here... Kevin: Oh I haven't seen this before . . . that's the inside of the building, I saw the picture with everybody outside. Yvonne: And this little place here, we had a coffee machine and stuff in there where we made coffee. Kevin: Okay, so everybody sort of lined up at one of these desks and you handed out the cash? Yvonne: No, we just had a couple desks lined up, and they would come there and file in, and when I left the Navy, this guy here, Tom Fox -- my desk was pushed up against his so there were two desks; I had been back in the back, there were four desks all pushed together. So I went into a different job at that time. Kevin: And you've got some other pictures here too. This is the photo I saw with everybody sitting out in the front and you're on the third level in I think. Yvonne: Right. Right here. Kevin: Well, were there any memorable people in there that you worked with? Yvonne: These are the guys here and I've got all their names on the back. Kevin: And these are the people you worked with? Yvonne: Yes. Kevin: Well, it was a big unit it looked like; there were a lot of people. Everybody looks so young too. I suppose their all about 18 to 20s.

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Yvonne: No, a lot of them like you see in this picture, this is the main group, a lot of them are old Seabees. Kevin: Oh, okay. So I think of the Seabees of being like engineers on bulldozers.Were they also doing administrative roles? Yvonne: Yes, they just didn't know what else to do with them, I think. Kevin: (laughing) Okay. Well, did you have any memorable people you worked with? You still kept in touch with three of them after the war? Yvonne: Yes, there are some stories. Now this group here, I really didn't have any close friends except this one gal, Vivian, and there's a lot of stories about Vivian. Jim: They met Frank Sinatra while he was there. Kevin: Really? Was he a civilian and singing? Yvonne: He was singing, and if he would stand behind the microphone, you couldn't see him, he was so skinny. The person that came out ahead of him to warm up the audience was Orson Wells. He was a magician; he did a magic act. Kevin: Really, I never knew that he was a magician. I'm going to pause for technical reasons for just a minute. Kevin: Okay, so how did you see Frank Sinatra? Was he at a USO show or downtown? Yvonne: No, he came out to the base, where we were in New York. Different people did. They put on this show for us. They asked somebody to come up on the stage, so Vivian went, and Vivian had kind of a hairy face and strawberry pink hair, very different. But we wanted her to get up on stage. So she did, she got up on the stage and she started across the stage saying; “FRANKIE!” and it scared him half to death! Kevin: He'd probably been attacked a few times! Well, Frank Sinatra, well he was pretty popular I would think at that point in his career. Yvonne: Oh Yes, he was just beginning. Kevin: Was he ever in the service? I don't recall. Jim: I don 't think so, I think there was something physically wrong with him Yvonne: I remember that Frank and Orson Welles came out and Arthur Ashe who was a top tennis player, he came out. Different people would come out and entertain us. Kevin: Well, I imagine being close to New York there were a lot of things going on. Did they let you out very often, to get out and do something on a weekend or was it an infrequent sort of thing? Yvonne: No, you could get passes to get out. Now when I came into Camp Elliot, it was a Marine base, and it was just being transfered from the Marines to the Navy. Kevin: Did they give you time away that you could get off the base then? Yvonne: Oh sure. Kevin: And what types of things would you do in San Diego? Yvonne: Well, we really had just one big weekend in San Diego. I remember I went to St. Patrick's Cathedral. Edith Head was there and talked to us, she's a designer. She promised this one WAVE to make her wedding dress for her. Who else . . . we went to the Empire State Building. Jim: In New York? Yvonne: You're talking about New York aren't you? Oh, San Diego...

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Kevin: Sorry, I should have stayed with New York. I know there's a picture of you at the Empire State Building, up at the top it looked like. So, there was a lot to do in New York? Yvonne: Yes, and in San Diego, there was the Sherman Hotel and there's a place down the basement in the Sherman Hotel. I can't think of what it was called. Jim: The 5 & 10, the Sherman 5 & 10. Its supposed to be the longest bar in the United States. Yvonne: There were two or three famous hotels with bars. LaJolla was in Coronado Island. Kevin: Oh yes, that's beautiful, that area. Now there were some pictures of you at a Rathskeller. Yvonne: Oh yes, that was different than Chicago. That was before the war. That was different. Kevin: Now did you keep correspondence up with Jim or was that hard to get the mail to and back? Yvonne: Oh yes, we have a lot of correspondence, lots of letters. Kevin: Well, its important to make copies of that because I don't know how many people have told me that they loaned them to a brother or something and then they were burned in a house fire. So if you have letters and correspondence its a good idea to make a copy and keep them in another location. Jim: We had mail call about once a month, or if it was coming fast, about every two weeks. And they had all these letters and they'd read off the names of the guys and they'd read my name and then they'd toss the letter. I'd always take the tip off of the letter and go like that (clap clap) because she'd always put talcum in them. Yvonne: Sachet Kevin: And you'd have a cloud. Yvonne: And I have one letter in there, and it was in a different handwriting and it said you may not recognize the handwriting, its not me writing this letter, and he had broken both his elbows. Jim: Yes, I'd bruised the muscles, I fell on my arms. Yvonne: Bruised them so he couldn't write. Kevin: So somebody else was doing the handwriting part. Yvonne: Black Dog I think. He was writing the letter for him, and he'd put in little comments. Kevin: Would you get more than one letter at a time, or would they come in one at a time? Yvonne: Usually one at a time, but sometime we'd get two or three at a time. Jim: We'd get two or three at a time; we wouldn't get mail very often. Yvonne: And there was very little censoring. Kevin: Oh yes, I guess that was a thing that was done to make sure there weren't any secrets . . . Yvonne: I remember one letter where they had cut out a lot of stuff. But that was about it, and letters would start out “somewhere in the Pacific”. Kevin: Did people in the Pacific . . . were they using this V-mail, where it was kind of shrunk? Can you explain what that is? 9

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Yvonne: Well, I've got a couple letters down there that Jim sent, it was V-mail, but it was kind of like tissue paper. Jim: Yes, real thin light paper. That was the main thing.They didn't want it very heavy. They took steps to lighten it up. Kevin: And was it shrunk, like did they photograph it? Some of the guys in Europe, they actually photographed it and then shrank it. It was almost a microfilm process. There wasn't anything like that in the Pacific? Yvonne: No, I never got anything like that. Kevin: Did the mail go by ship or was it an airplane delivery? Yvonne: Airmail hopefully, it went by airplane. Kevin: So, it was pretty quick between when you'd write the letter and when he'd get the letter? Jim: There was generally a two or three week delay. What they were doing was they were flying a lot of that mail out with these big four engine Seaplanes -- Coronado, they called them, that would come from Hawaii, and they would come out and bring a lot of mail with them and disperse them after they got out there. Kevin: Well most people say the mail was kind of important for the morale, is that what your experience was? Jim: Very much so. Yvonne: And in place of a stamp, you would just write FREE. Kevin: Yes, there was one story where somebody just ripped an envelope and wrote the letter and then folded it over, so I guess they were pretty loose with the requirements. Did you meet local people or did you stay pretty much on the base in San Diego? Yvonne: I stayed on the base, I can't remember any local people Kevin: So you were still in the WAVES during VE Day in San Diego. Was there a celebration? Was that special in any way or you were waiting for VJ day I suppose? Yvonne: No, we weren't in San Diego at that time, so I don't know what went on. Kevin: Then you went home and you were taking care of affairs with your mother having passed away. Do you have memories of the end of the war or what things were like in Iowa? Did people go out and celebrate in the streets? What was the reaction? Yvonne: I can't remember anything like that. Kevin: Okay, well my mother was in St. Louis and she said it just erupted into this thing out in the street, but she was in the city, she wasn't in a smaller town. So you were discharged and did you meet up again shortly after? Jim: She hitchhiked from San Diego to Iowa, her and another girl. Kevin: Really? Well, how did that go? You were hitchhiking with your thumb out and people would pick you up and you traveled half way across the country? Yvonne: We left San Diego and went to Los Angeles and spent the night there. Then we got a ride with a businessman. He was very nice. He drove us around Palm Springs and showed us some different sights, very nice. And then he let us off and we kind of followed Route 66. We got to Gallup New Mexico, and after we left Gallop, we were somewhere in Texas, and I can't remember where that would be, but we decided we'd had enough hitchhiking so we caught a train. Kevin: Were you hitchhiking to save money? 10

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Yvonne: No, you could hitchhike in those days, there was no problem, it was just fun, something to do. We were in no hurry to get home. Kevin: You saw most of the country then going to the East coast, and up and down the East coast and then all the way to San Diego, California and then back. So you saw most of the United States. Yvonne: And then hitchhiking back we went through Gallup, New Mexico. It was really interesting because they were having an Indian get together and the Indian ladies all wore beautiful big full skirts and all these squash blossoms and turquoise, beautiful, beautiful costumes. Kevin: Oh yes, so you're in Iowa and then did you go back to California when Jim got out of the service or how did you meet up again? Jim: She was in San Diego when I came back. I came back at the end of '44. She was at work at Camp Elliot. Kevin: Did you stay in San Diego for a while? Jim: No, I came home. They had tickets for us and we got paid and got on the train and came home and she stayed in San Diego. Then you got a leave, didn't you and visited me while I was home on my 30 day leave. Yvonne: We got engaged at San Diego, at the athletic club, remember? Jim: Right, that's when I first got home. Kevin: Now were you both from the same area of Iowa or was it different? Jim: No, I'm from north of Sioux City about 25 miles from a place called Le Mars and she's from Marshall town, which is more on the east side. Yvonne: The center part Kevin: So how did you see each other? Did you have a car or something and you drove? Jim: You mean how did we meet each other or . . . Kevin: Yes, I suppose you got engaged. You got engaged in San Diego and then you're home . . . Jim: I went home and then went down to Corpus Christie and she went back to San Diego, and then she got out when her mother passed away, and I was then transferred up to Memphis. Kevin: So you had more time in the service? Jim: Right, a lot more time than she did. See I went in the service the 20th of October of '42 and I got out of the service January of '46. Kevin: That still is amazing to me because all those 8th Air Force guys got out earlier. The Navy was really slow at letting people out. Jim: We had a little different point system. Kevin: So when you got out then, did you go to Iowa? Jim: When I got out I went to Chicago and met Von in Chicago. Then we went to Marshalltown. Yvonne: And then for about a year he was at the farm in Le Mars and I was in Marshalltown. We just corresponded. Jim: I got out in January and then we got married in June of '46. We weren't together between January and June very much, but then she came up and we got married in Le Mars. 11

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Kevin: Where were you married? Yvonne: In Le Mars. Kevin: And then where did you live, in Le Mars? Yvonne: No, we were going to college. Jim: Well, we lived in Le Mars until college started in the fall, and then we went over to Yankton, South Dakota and lived in government housing over there and went to school. We both went to college and I finished college in three years in Yankton and then we went to South Dakota State in Brookings for two more years. Von went to school over there as well. We had one little girl that was born in March of '47. Kevin: What was your subject at school? Yvonne: Journalism. Kevin: And did you get a degree in that? Yvonne: No, I'm a junior (chuckling) Kevin: So, you went to school both places? Yvonne: Right. Kevin: And how many kids do you have? Yvonne: Six children, five girls and one boy. Kevin: What are their names? Yvonne: Dana, Betsy, Jayne, Jacquelyn, Sandy and Jamie. Kevin: And do they all live in this area or are they spread all over the place? Yvonne: Well, they all live pretty much in this area. We have one daughter that's in Eau Claire, Wisconsin and our son is in Indianapolis. Kevin: Well that's not too bad. My family is all over, so if you can have a group of them at least in the area that's nice. So did you ever work in journalism or was that just something you were interested in while you were going through school? Yvonne: No, I was just beginning journalism classes. In fact at Yankton, Jim would sign up for his classes, then the spots that were left is where I would fit things in. Jim: We had to line up a babysitter if we both had class at the same time. Kevin: Sounds like a lot of juggling. Yvonne: We did find a babysitter. She was a lady who had parakeets. Her second floor was all birds. Jim: She would just let them loose up there. Kevin: Inside the house? Yvonne: Right. Kevin: Wow, okay...? I don't know how sanitary that sounds (laughing). Jim: We were desperate for babysitters. Yvonne: But that was the second floor Kevin: Well now the WAVES, I know they have publications. Did you have reunions or get togethers with the people you met? Yvonne: They do have reunions. In fact they're having one now, but I didn't go to any of them. Kevin: What units? What size group is it? Is it people that were in the small unit you were in or was it National? Yvonne: Well this would be national. Its called WAVES National. 12

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Jim: They have all those chapters that are named. Yvonne: Yes, and then I've got this letter when they sent my check for my dues. They said “I'm returning your check. We no longer have our Unit 37 of the WAVES National. Our meetings were down to just a few numbers, not enough to keep our chapter, just two, three or four people.” Kevin: Oh, that's too bad, you know, more and more of that is happening. The Pearl Harbor Association just disbanded this last December, for the same reason,. There just weren't enough people left. Jim: We really had a booming organization with our VPB52, but it just got down to where it was too much trouble for the guys to travel. They had to have special conveniences for them and buses with lifts and all that kind of stuff. Kevin: Well, that's probably going to happen with all the organizations eventually, I guess. Now during the Civil War they had some kind of tradition where the last two men standing had a drink, or something like that. Yvonne: I think I mentioned to you last time that one of the guys was telling me at the 8th Air Force that he was going to get a bottle and do this, but I don't know which one it was. Kevin: Oh, okay, well I'll go and ask who that was. Have you two been out to see the WW II memorial in Washington? Yvonne: Yes, we did see that, didn't we? Jim: Yup, we went. Yvonne: I've got a file on that too. Jim: My first cousin was in charge of the monuments during the Bush regime. Kevin: So he helped get this thing started? Jim: Well, he came in after it got started, he also oversaw all the cemeteries around the world, he traveled around. He'd come here and spend two or three days at Fort Snelling, making sure they're doing everything the way they're suppose to. Kevin: Well they do really good work, the cemeteries in Europe are just beautiful -- the maintenance. Everybody talks about the amount of maintenance, and how they look is just terrific. Jim: They even have a cemetery in New Guinea, but I doubt whether they keep that up. Kevin: They'd have to be fighting off all the bugs and the bats and everything else I suppose. Yvonne: And this cousin's brother was Ambassador to the Pope. Kevin: Really? That's an unusual... Yvonne: They called it the Holy See. The Ambassador to the Holy See. Jim: Yes, that was during the Bush years. Kevin: Have you been back to Camp Elliot? Yvonne: There is no Camp Elliot. Kevin: Oh it's gone?! What happened to the base there? Yvonne: I have no idea, there's nothing there. Kevin: They just sold it off...? Jim: But we were back there one time. Yvonne: Yes, but there's no Camp Elliot.

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Kevin: Have you ever been back to Georgia to see if the campus is still there. There's probably still classes. Yvonne: Yes, we saw my old room at Ennis Hall. Jim: We went to a VPB 52 reunion down in Orlando, and we flew into Atlanta and rented a car and drove down and went to Von's room. Yvonne: So we spent time in Ennis Hall. Kevin: Did you see any of the young students? Did you get a chance to talk people that are still going to school there now? Yvonne: Well, I forget what was there. We saw my old room, and it was a doctor's office, a lady doctor, and she was gone. It was her office. I don't know what Ennis Hall was at that time. Jim: Yes, it was converted to something. Kevin: Well did the local historian for the college talk to you, I would think you'd be historically important. You had stories about what it was like back then. Jim: I don't think anyone knew we were there. We didn't announce ourselves. Would you like to have a cup of coffee or tea or something. Yvonne: How about a lemon-lime cold drink. Kevin: Yes, that sounds fine. Well, we'll pause this for a minute. Kevin: Okay, we're back, and I want to ask you what your serial number was. Yvonne: 763 20 29 Kevin: That's pretty good after, what is it – 70 years. Now what's yours, Jim? Jim: 621 34 82 Kevin: And you probably haven't used that number for anything for a while. Jim: Its been a long time. Kevin: Now I wanted to go over a couple of things. Now, you have an interesting color thing that was...was this given to your mother and she saved that? Maybe you could hold that up and we could get a picture of that. That would go in a window. Yvonne (holds up a sign) “'There is a WAVE from this family in the NAVY.” Kevin: That's kind of neat that they did that. Did your mother save that for you? Was it in the estate when you got home? Yvonne: My brother was a saver. He saved a lot of stuff. Jim: I think that was in answer to; “There's a service man from this house.” or something for the man, and they had that for the female. Kevin: Well, I want to thank you for letting me do this video interview. Yvonne: Well, thank you. Kevin: Its kind of a unique thing because I've never met anyone that was in the WAVES before so, it will be a one-of-a-kind as far as the interviews I have done over the years. Jim: We certainly appreciate all the things you've done. Kevin: I'll make copies and we'll get some so all your kids can all have a copy of the interview. Jim: Now that shooting that you did, is that on our computer? Kevin: It is on your computer and I'll give you a DVD too, which I have with me. Is there anything you want to add since we've got you on video, or did we pretty much get everything? 14

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Yvonne: I think you did a pretty good job of covering everything. Kevin: Well, thanks and we'll conclude now. TAPE ENDS

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