Stewardship CPR – Coffee with Chris 22 January 22, 2014
Questions for the Full Seminar Bob Tanouye: With struggling finances, the question I get is "why do we devote so much time and resouces to M&S and local outreach projects. Why not keep it to support our Church? Bob, our problem is that we can’t make the local budget sound attractive enough …people want to “designate” or “follow their generosity…listen tonight for more on this. Elaine Strawbridge: Our church is growing -‐ our attendance figures in Sunday worship and our Sunday School programs continue to climb but the money doesn't come with it. We were told by our finance committee last night. that we will be bankrupt by the end of 2014. It takes seven years, Elaine, to grow a faithful and generous steward. Give it time. If you don’t have that time, you may be at a flipping point when you have to address the question of real-estate. This could be a great opportunity! Gary Gaudin: My community is absolutely convinced that we need to pay real attention to stewardship, but there is very little enthusiasm for doing the hard work of stewardship, especially if that means having to make different lifestyle choices. Gary, let’s talk about this in the big seminar. I think we have to fire our passions for wonder first…the money questions will follow. Beth W Johnston: what about when people are struggline to buy groceries and furnace oil I find the most generous are also the most impoverished (relatively speaking) Sheila Redden-‐Smith: Sheila my congregation same thinking as Gary Our task is to create in people a sense of wonder …work at developing a spirit of generosity in all we do …the money question gets easier then. Chris hague: For some reason Presbytery took the role of Stewards and Elders away from this pastoral charge (before my time) and now no one seems to feel -‐ think that stewardship is their role. Quite a conundrum This is a hard situation to answer, but the fact we don’t have “stewards” anymore may give us a chance to rename and rethink the role of growing generosity. It would sound different if we called it the “wonder” committee. Donna Rumpel: The congregation I serve has just exceeded it's M&S goal for the second year in a row.. We have celebrated immensely because it is the first time in their 100 yr church history that they have
exceeded the goal. However, this year we are seeing just a break even on our operating line and people are already talking about giving less to M&S and more to local finances.. We just got to this wonderful state of giving to mission -‐ I would hate to lose that! You won’t …but don’t be discouraged if things slow down a bit. It’s natural. Bob Tanouye: We had a donor who gave us a most generous donation with the comment, we need it now and not when he passes away. Kind of like an early bequest. We hope to encourage others to do the same if they can afford it. Amen! That’s a story to celebrate! Michelle Armstrong: statagies for moving congregation from reactive (ie several years ago prior to my time one of my points actually went door to door in the village asking for support to make the budget) to a proactive in their history they have not really done stewardship programs from what I have been able to discover. Where to start Start by creating a “mission” that people in the church can see and feel, follow and feed…”A lunch program for seniors, a breakfast program for school kids, a special booth at the county fare…they won’t have to be asked to be generous at that point. It will be second nature. Tom McCauley Bloor Street United Church: How do we address stewardship in the context of dwindling membership where we are losing older members (who have a larger ability to give) and younger members who have limited ability to give? Michelle Armstrong: second Tom This is a common problem. First thing to see is not to “take it personally.” You have not failed nor is your community of faith a “loser.” We are all going through the “humiliation” of our beloved institution. It’s hard and there are tough choices, but if we recognize that our primary role is to be “faithful” then we ask ourselves how our unfolding mission (smaller in numbers of course, but no less vital) can continue the faithfulness of past generations. The church is not closing or dying, we are moving to a new place in our life together and we will have to develop new ways to speak of our faithfulness. Audrey: I struggle with speaking stewardship to young families just making their way through the month, while the church hoards money "for a rainy day" Everyone can give something and if we don’t ask young people to be generous we rob them of the chance and choice of discipleship. Our work is to show them the wonder of unconditional love and how it is possible to give back. They will respond according to their own means. Kathi Zwicker: I am also impressed by the fact that it is commercial enterprises that are teaching the public about stewardship and we in the church are abandoning that role and even the language of stewardship. It is a pity. We need to re-invent and invest in our words: “stewardship,” “trust,” “generosity.”
Connie McNamara: How do we deal with stewardship in a pastoral charge that says, "we have the money to keep the buildings maintained and open, we just don't have the money to pay the minister"? Connie, it is hard for we who are paid to say this, but here is what I would try: “the community of faith is not a building or paid staff. First comes God’s mission of love and justice in this world…in our specific time and place. How we respond to that mission is always open to debate. But let us never confuse keeping a building open with God’s ultimate will and purpose. It is merely a tool.” Bob Tanouye: We ran a Stewardship campaign last summer. We feel it was very successful. Not a lot of resources to help with such a campaign through UCC. We are all having to invent as we go along…some reources are on the web or through private contractors. Audrey: how do we deal with this reality (theology of satan aside) “Satan is so much more in earnest than we are-‐-‐he buys up the opportunity while we are wondering how much it will cost.” ― Amy Carmichael I will speak of this tonight. We have lost our passion. We need to find it again or let it find us. Tom McCauley Bloor Street United Church: There are so many congregations are "hanging on financially". What can we do as a United Church of Canada to "encourage" Congregations to amalgamate to be good stewards of our financial resources rather than becoming slaves to our buildings? “Slaves to our buildings” …that sounds like a new conference…maybe that should be our next program. I find that forced or strongly “suggested” amalgamations do not work well. Jim MacDonald: Question: People who once did not attend church sent in contribution ns just the same because of their theology which compelled them to at least make an investment in the possibility of a God retribution. With people no longer holding to that kind of theology they may no longer feel compelled to make financial contributions in spite of their lack of attendance. They may also now feel compelled by well presented marketing with respect ot other causes. How do we continue to appeal for tangible support from those who may not be inclined to take in the Sunday Morning event? Just looking for some ideas. This is a longer discussion but one thing I would suggest we continue to do Is “ask.” Perhaps we need to find programs that people can follow and join which are not based on Sunday morning. Write me and we can go into more depth
[email protected] Bob Tanouye: Older building require more costly maintenance. We are not a building. But our building is now a heritage site. How do we get free of “heritage” sites? They honour past generations and their devotion to beauty, but only a few of us can afford to carry on in that way. David (High River UC): The stewardship questions are not fully formed for me. But, if anything I think that there is a real need to rediscover and enhance the notion of stewardship as spiritual practice; to
somehow get past the dualistic notion that money/finances and spirituality are separate. I think that still runs deep in United Church congregations. I think there needs to be a re-‐work of the deeply spiritual significance of the tithe. As I think about my own tithing practice I know I get caught in the “what’s really in it for me” and “where are the returns on my investment” and “gee if I didn’t give to the church, I could take the whole family on a really nice vacation.” Yet, what needs to be held much closer to the heart is the sense of practice, the sense of trusting in God’s capacity to provide, the sense of “repentance” that is, reorienting my face in the direction of God and allowing God to be the compass point. I also wonder about stewardship, tithing, supporting God’s mission in a time wher David (High River UC): I also wonder about stewardship, tithing, supporting God’s mission in a time where “scarcity” is both real (cost of living and lower incomes, the increased practice of hoarding wealth) and perceived (conventional wisdom about scarcity when there’s abundance all around). We won’t be focusing on the spirituality of tithing, but a good deal of what I am going to talk about is related to a more spiritual understanding of generosity. Garry van Bruchem: In our congregation we revived the ancient practice of testimony, inviting people to share (usually in writing) how they keep hope alive. We received over a dozen testimonies which we shared with the congregation during the "minutes for stewardship" during our program. Excellent! Garry van Bruchem: It would be helpful to show how we distance ourselves from the so-‐called "prosperity gospel" that is a staple of religious TV programming. Amen! Gary Gaudin: It would also be helpful to develop resources which we can use rather directyly than translate them from largely American sources with quite different theological and ecclesiological underpinnings. Okay…we’ll work on this. Elaine Strawbridge: As the Faith Development minister the money I spend for my programs (sunday school, youth group, children's programs, VBS et) appear with their own line on the budget while the minister of worship and Pastoral cares expenses -‐ Sunday morning worship which would include the cost of a musician, bulletins, the sanctuary and upgrades to that -‐ appear as their own line -‐ not related to what he does so the finance committee looks to me to cut budget items. How can this be done differently? Narrative budgeting sounds like what you need. Ellen: giving is a bit like taxes -‐ somehow we need to get to the place of belief or understanding of our obligation to give. Obligation will never inspire generosity over the long haul. We need more “inviting of grace.”
Kathryn McIntosh: What about the problem of fatique and too few doing all the work.? We are tired. This is true. So we need to do the natural thing. Take a break, look at doing less. Biting off what we can chew. God does not want to kill us. Kathi Zwicker: It seems our younger people are catching us on Facebook more than joining the worshipping congregation on Sunday am. How can we encourage some faithful stewardship from that Facebook connection? Sounds like they are being faithful already. Why don’t we integrate their Facebook world in our own or join it. Elaine Strawbridge: Dont think I was clear in my question above -‐ my programs have their own budget lines -‐ while the cost of worship and pastoral care does not -‐ even though these amounts are greater (musician, bulletins, the secretary, sanctuary costs (decorating etc.)) They look to me to cut because they can see what my programs cost. All programs should be listed and seen in the same light, the ministry of sacrament, word and pastoral care too! Ellen: there needs to be a reward for giving as well -‐ I don't mean monetary or maybe even recognition, but somehow there needs to be something that encourages me to give. Gratitude! The only reward that works. Garry van Bruchem: Please address the issue of how our offerings are not merely donations to charities; i.e., that the church is not just one of several a chairities to which people give. Watch the seminar for the question of “gathering grace” and how my church saved me. That should help. Though I wouldn’t be worried about distinguishing the church from other charities so much as being faithful to our mission and purpose. Sheila Redden-‐Smith: Often heard it said "we need more people in the church...then we'd be ok." The concern is for more people in order to preserve the church. It's not necessarily concern for the people. Church is willing to accept newcomers money but not necessarily extending a warm welcome and giving newcomers a voice. Amen! We don’t need people to grow our resources. We need to be faithful to our mission. Full stop! Bob Tanouye: Just received our Presbytery Assessment and their formula assures that Confernce and Presbytery get their budget. We do not review or input to their budgets. Wouldn't it be nice if we could do the same to assess each member of our congregation in order to raise money for our budget. Nice idea but it is not our style…we are quite a ways form that. Probably too hard to reach in our lifetime. Linda Tomlinson-‐Seebach: I am doing a one year visioning process now in the church. We are looking at our churches as metaphors. The first metaphor is the church as a healing centre. Second will be church
as retreat or sanctuary from life. Three is church as spiritual fitness centre. (Like a gym.) I don't talk about money as Stewardship, I talk and ask what is is that we do to facilitate God's grace, God's healing, God's teaching. The mission comes first, the money will follow. That’s my point…thank you. Ted Grady: There seems to be a challenge to shape the conversation around mission and not just focusing on monetary matters and dollars and cents langauage Yes, that would be helpful. We are often too shy to talk money clearly. Elaine Strawbridge: Chris, I have an idea for fundraising that I have been trying to get off the ground and I have met nothing but resistance. I want to do a cycle trip across CAnada in 2015 which will be a relay beginning in the West and landing at General Council. This will build excitement for the gathering in Nfld. Will raise money and it need not cost much. I have done two of these cycles and would happily explain how it is done and how it enhances our mission and ministry. Just be prepared to listen without prejudging I like it and would love to join and help. Nancy Sanders: Our congregation is very generous, and gives a large amount to M&S and to various social justice concerns in our city. We're shrinking rather drastically, however, and people are worried about and discouraged with our deficit position. We're not sure we aren't "maxed out" in the giving department, and so a starting point of abundance is starting (with some) to become a place of scarcity. Two years ago we buried 17 of our faithful members (in what has become a small congregation). So far we've managed to avoid a fundraising approach, but the reflex in a time of fear seems to be to throw a fundraiser. We're having to cut people off in the pass when they offer to fundraise, and this is one of several reasons for our need to revive an intentional emphasis on stewardship. Yes. There are community building benefits to fundraisers, but they can’t be our foundational source of revenue. As we shrink, we have naturally to re-think our styles of ministry. David (High River UC): I'm noticing a couple of comments and questions re: social media and Facebook. For our younger people, this is part of their life and a real mechanism for the congregation to be in touch with them. Hope we might be able to explore that a wee bit more. Let’s talk about this tonight. Facebook, live streaming, chats…etc. Kathi Zwicker: We do not seem to be doing a good job overall of promoting the ministry efforts of our congregation -‐ of letting people know what we are about -‐ both people within and beyond the congregation do not seem to understand the church as being about ministry. It takes time and concerted time. I like mission trips and tours to do this work.
Elaine Strawbridge: HI Ellen, no not just me -‐ a core group who might do the whole thing and then individuals who would do a day, a conference, two days -‐ whatever they wanted to do Michelle Armstrong: ownership of the ministry and thus supporting it financially. I have been in this congregation for 6 months and i find people saying "whatever you want to do" "it is up to you" our committees have had at least a year (without a minister) of not meeting (as mentioned earlier they have not had stewardship programs in the treasures memeory) I know that there are lots of things compounding my situation, but I wonder about how ownership of ministry and ownership in responding to the local community (which is what I have been having them look at recently) is tied to fostering our stewardship and ministry engagement. especially with an older population. As a 30 something minister I am the yongest by decades. Michelle, it will be your burden to bear that you re always “young” …thank you for sticking with us. We need you energy and don’t be shy about showing us your best ideas…of course they are your ideas, we don’t have them yet…but if you inspire us, they will become “our” ideas too. Kathi Zwicker: I wish there were stories of congregations that really took a risk -‐ not just comfortable giving, or fundraisers to give but really focussed on education and digging deep beyond comfort level to see an area of their ministry flourish. It seems to me there are stories of that in the past in the congregations I have been a part of but today we only invest in our ministries provided it doesn't impact our congregational lifestyle. We need to relive those old stories. Cindy Casey: 1. How do we create a link between a sense of gratefulness and to having the church be the recipient of that gratefulness? 2. How do we move our congregations into recognizing the value and importance of our faith community; and how do we translate that into their understanding of the need for local financial support.? 3. It is easier to raise money for a project or outreach program than it is to raise funds for maintenance costs. Many of us grew up thinking the church would always be there when we needed it -‐ now we need to demonstrate that 'the church' needs the support of its community. For the focus of the Stewardship CPR seminiar we need to focus on local congregrational funding -‐ the general fund as opposed to specific projects or M & S. Without the congregations, there will be no support for projects or M & S. Strengthen congregations and programs and M&S will be strengthen as well. Watch the seminar and focus on two things: “gathering grace stories,” and contemporary “tools for designated giving.”
Wonder Stories Audrey: I recently had to confess something embarrassing, to someone I work very hard to impress with my competence and skill. It wasn’t a big deal, it was that I had lost a wallet and some ID. I misplaced it after a very long and stressful day, so it was forgivable. And the confessing was timely and it was a good example of what to do when you make a mistake.Still it was embarrassing, and I felt very foolish indeed.I bought a new purse, just because of this loss, working on the theory that a bigger purse would have prevented it from becoming lost. I hoped for two weeks, that I had just done one of those
“women” things – where you put something somewhere so you don’t lost it….then forget where you put it. I prayed a daily novena to St Antony patron Saint of lost items -‐ yes, friends this is how desperate I was to miraculously find the item – I turned to the Saints.The prayer asks for help with what has been lost. But then goes on to say…. At least restore to me peace and tranquility of mind, t Elaine Strawbridge: The under 50 crowd -‐ who are poorly represented in many congregations but are abundant here at Nashwaaksis, do not have the practice of setting aside a certain amount of money for church, mission, charitable donations. We get what they have left over. How do we change this? Audrey: missed the ending It worked. – Not because the wallet was found, but because I got over myself and just let it go.And because my confessor lives by the creed that everybody is redeemable, he gave me a new wallet (last one). David (High River UC): I must hasten to add, that as a congregation and community suffering post-‐ trauma and immense loss, our congregation has been the recipient of amazing gratitude from across the church that has totally affirmed wonder and generosity for us in a way that helps us remember that indeed we are not alone. The whole church and all its people continue to embody God's abundance. Sheila Redden-‐Smith: One of our children required open heart surgery at age of 10 months. We had to take him to Sick Kids Hospital while we lived in NS. All the medical costs were not covered by MSI or our insurance. One was the bill for the surgeon. Very high cost of several thousand dollars and we were only in our 20's with no money to cover this bill. We wrote a letter to the surgeon giving him the money we had with a promise to send monthly payments. The following week we received an invoice bill paid in full. Amazing. He said he felt that we were under enough pressure caring for a sick infant and he didn't want to place any unnecessary stress upon us. I'll never forget his generosity. Linda Tomlinson-‐Seebach: My wonder story is when my oldest son Chris was born. He was conceived, well, let's just say not in the best of circumstances -‐ I was unmarried , I had actually broken off a previous engagement. When he was born he came out lifeless. I knew immediately something was wrong. The room (literally )went still. His dad, nurses and doctors stopped talking and started working. I knew then that my son's life was in God's hands. In that moment I knew I didn't deserve this child, but I asked God to put the first breath into his lungs. And, my son Christian breathed. Two years a nurse friend of mine (who was at the birth with us) told me something I didn't know. She said, Linda you don't know -‐ Chris was stillborn. I knew then, and I know now it was only because of God's grace my son lived and lives. I have and will never forget that Grace. It was the beginning of my journey into ministry. Connie McNamara: I was a student at St. F.X. working a summer job pumping gas at a local service station, when after pumping gas into a big truck, I went to the window to collect the money from the driver and noticed as he passed me the bills, that his hands were extremely dirty. As I ran back into the station to get him his change, I made a mental note to myself to not touch his hands when I passed him his change. Yet when I reached into the cash register to make the change I saw that my hands were much dirtier than his had been. It was indeed a moment of wonder in my life, not that I had received a second chance, but that I had indeed been given a wonderful opportunity to be reminded not to be too quick to judge, and certainly to be more generous with my open mindedness, and more generous with my acceptance. I have thought of this moment many times in the last 27 years and it has always moved me forward in generous ways.
